So what is 'Free' in the Irish Free State then? Perhaps the English should get equally uptight about the singing of the French National Anthem (Bonaparte) or the German National Anthem (The Kaiser & Hitler?) at a sports event??
I hope that nowadays the ordinary British soldier is given some basic education about political realities.I remember the Nationalist Northern Irish women banging dustbin lids in proximity to our troops.In the hope that one or several would lose discipline and lash out.
February 24, 2007 at 2:26 PM
Anonymous
said...
They can swear to be free all they like, but when Wilko starts smacking the drop goals and penalties they can swear because they're beaten!
I agree about Hain, of course... I don't think he should be let near a rugby pitch, let alone on one!
February 24, 2007 at 2:28 PM
Anonymous
said...
As an Irish person and indeed somebody who has played Gaelic games and attended Croke Park infrequently, I think we should just let the sport do the talking or, as the case may be, singing.
I don't particularly like the British national anthem but I think it should be afforded the respect that all other national anthems are afforded in sporting arenas around the world.
I realise that, Garth Brooks aside, Croke Park is somewhat sacred turf but it's time to be mature and move on. It's been almost 100 years and what better way to show the face of the new, modern Ireland than to act in a mature and considered fashion.
This is particularly so given that a large number of our supporters and indeed some of our first XV hail from the North and may actually themselves hold British passports.
Otherwise, let's kick some English ass!
February 24, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Anonymous
said...
Rugby was one those thing's that I didn't think had been "tainted" now that trash Hain is going to help it along.
Hain is a prick - the Irish should make him the focus of any hostilities.
February 24, 2007 at 2:36 PM
Anonymous
said...
I should also say that I think that the Sinn Fein protest is ill-considered and stupid.
If GAA delegates from Armagh and the border counties are fine with Croke Park being opened up for rugby and the rest of the GAA is in accord, then this is not a live issue.
The overwhelming majority of Irish opinion also supports permitting rugby and soccer be played in Croke Park, so all in all, the protest is incredibly stupid and not "populist" in the usual Sinn Fein campaign sense. It just makes them look bitter and slightly out-of-touch.
An own-goal of epic proportions, you might say.
February 24, 2007 at 2:37 PM
Anonymous
said...
I am in Argentina at the moment - another good rugby country - and the opening up of Croke Park and the debate surrounding the British national anthem has made the sporting press here and been subject to quite a bit of discussion.
It's really quite amusing - of course all of the 6 Nations games are live on television here.
February 24, 2007 at 2:41 PM
Anonymous
said...
I am reminded of a recent tv programme about the Suez in which an Egyptian who had experienced it and fought against the invading troops pointed out that troops always do something to inflame the local populace, they are after all soldiers not diplomats. Thats why invading forces are never welcome and the longer they stay the more they inflame. 100 years later we are still experiencing the repercussions of British troops in Ireland. How many years will our current ill judged interventions in Iraq be felt?
February 24, 2007 at 2:41 PM
Anonymous
said...
Actually, it's the British national anthem. The English haven't got one. Perhaps the Irish will have the same opinion for the Welsh and Scottish? After all, it was a Welsh PM at the time and Butcher Hague isn't exactly one of ours. Will they?
As a rallying call, this one is doing the rounds right now and is being adopted for May 1st. England is rising -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5h4PFBuzvw
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk Of the way we look and the way we talk Without our stories or our songs How will we know where we've come from? I’ve lost St George in the Union Jack It’s my flag too and I want it back
February 24, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Anonymous
said...
Guido I noted your point about the place. Mind you if I was Irish and had the prospect of a vote-seeking Foreign Politician trying to muscle-in on a sporting event then I might take a dim view as well.
February 24, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Anonymous
said...
The repercussions of Prince Harry being deployed to Iraq will be felt for many years to come - amongst the rubble, a vast network of strip clubs and polo canchas will criss-cross the once great state.
February 24, 2007 at 2:45 PM
Anonymous
said...
Paddy Maine was an Irish Rugby International, from the North, and one of the most decorated British soldiers of WWII, whilst a founding member of the SAS. He is also a BIG hero to the Unionists in the North. It might be worth remembering the contribution that Northern Irish players make to Irish Rugby, before using an Irish Rugby game as an excuse to twat on about how nasty the British were to the Irish umptey thrumptey years ago.
Another thought - Hain might be "British" by citizenship but he's certainy not English so what the f*ck is he doing at an England International?
February 24, 2007 at 3:06 PM
Anonymous
said...
2:43 PM
So I am not the only one who's p---d off, good tune.
February 24, 2007 at 3:06 PM
Anonymous
said...
"remember the Nationalist Northern Irish women banging dustbin lids in proximity to our troops.In the hope that one or several would lose discipline and lash out."
Actually they did that during the internment years. The army would come and search and they would bang the lids to warn all the local lads.
I am sure the Irish fans will show how the country has moved on - no longer holding that ancient hatred for the English. There will always be that minority of old reactionaries but most people are there for a good old sporting contest and nothing more.
February 24, 2007 at 3:12 PM
Anonymous
said...
100 years later we are still experiencing the repercussions of British troops in Ireland. How many years will our current ill judged interventions in Iraq be felt?
Do I care ? Maybe if the Irish looked at the Koreans they could see how far you can move ahead in life after a real war and a real occupation and a real enemy.......
February 24, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Anonymous
said...
We (the Irish) are much farther ahead of Korea - in fact, we have a much higher standard of living, are the most "globalised" (cf. economically open) country in the world and have a higher GDP per capita than you guys.
I don't like your use of the word "real". In fact, nothing you say has merit and what you say is entirely predicated on ignorance.
Also, last time I checked, I don't believe our neighbour to the north was developing nuclear weapons. I might be wrong, though.
February 24, 2007 at 3:33 PM
Anonymous
said...
I thought we were all supposed to be,'Citizens of Europe,'now;or am I just a misguided cynic?
England of course turned up in 1973 when noone else did . What the Irish do not , and never will , understand is the complete and utter disinterest the English have for them , their mistily mis-remembered history and their existence in an imaginative world paralell to , but not part of the real world .
I have a feeling the Irish are going to choke. They usually do
Chris Paul - The cunt Hain is nonetheless sticking his snout where it is not required with his glib implication that somehow he can take some credit for this event.
February 24, 2007 at 4:14 PM
Anonymous
said...
Never mind rugger buggars. Today's Guardian is putting the spotlight on Brown and his mate Ronnie Cohen:
"...Private equity has become so powerful that a handful of firms own businesses that employ one in every five workers in the private sector in Britain.
The firms are largely secretive, rarely give interviews and do not disclose who invests in their funds.
The industry meanwhile has made a small number of people who manage the funds immensely rich.
Sir Ronald Cohen, the Labour donor and adviser to chancellor Gordon Brown who founded private equity firm Apax, is said to be worth £250m...."
Keep politics out of sport. If Hain turns up with a bunch of flowers he should be told to fuck off. It should be a great match.
February 24, 2007 at 4:29 PM
Anonymous
said...
"Hey Guido I see Thea Rogers is at it again !"
Was just reading her Christ Church yearbook entry from the 2003-04 yearbook. "We'll be seeing more of her soon - either reading the News or making it". Very prophetic.
February 24, 2007 at 4:30 PM
Anonymous
said...
Let us pay tribute to Irish creativity. It was, after all, the world's first 'flyover state'. Even from 35,000 feet it looks like a waste of space.
Bunch of filty traitors. The problem with Britain is that it has lost its nerve in dealing with insurgents and terrorists, and did so such a long time ago.
The "Free" state is as free as the "Orange Free State" was. Death to the enemies of the Queen, restor the counties to the Union!
Hain should really get the old treatment for this: hang draw and quarter
February 24, 2007 at 4:50 PM
Anonymous
said...
Name a small nation next to a big nation that doesn't think it's been the pure and innocent victim of injustice and oppression. England could have behaved much better and could have behaved much worse, but let's not pretend there's any special virtue in its victims.
February 24, 2007 at 4:52 PM
Anonymous
said...
Newmania said... "England of course turned up in 1973 when noone else did . What the Irish do not , and never will , understand is the complete and utter disinterest the English have for them , their mistily mis-remembered history. "
Ironically it's the same for most of the Irish - they have little or no interest in their neighbours. Believe me, the Irish know their history and know of the past tragedies and frankly couldn't give a flying stuff anymore. Ireland is a confident country comfortable with itself and it's all of it's neighbours.
And if they live in an "imaginative world" it's a pretty sucessful imagination the Irish have.
February 24, 2007 at 4:59 PM
Anonymous
said...
As an Irishman, I'm hoping the Irish anthem is going to be sung in Irish, not 'Gaelic'.
February 24, 2007 at 5:00 PM
Anonymous
said...
"Anonymous said... Let us pay tribute to Irish creativity. It was, after all, the world's first 'flyover state'. Even from 35,000 feet it looks like a waste of space."
And they say the smaller nation is normally the one with the inferiority complex!
Gaelic as an adjective means "pertaining to the Gaels", including language and culture.
As a noun, it may refer to the group of languages spoken by the Gaels, or to any one of the individual languages.
Irish (Gaeilge), a Goidelic language spoken in Ireland
Irish Gaelic might be a better description, but since Mrs Fawkes and Angus MacNeil seem to be able to converse fluently...
February 24, 2007 at 5:11 PM
Anonymous
said...
Look, if you've done a bit in the Empire line, there's pretty much someone everywhere who can rustle up a grudge or two against you - there isn't a family round the Khyber Pass that doesn't have a story about how great grandad potted a Brit or two. The Irish boys don't take it too badly when they loose and don't make a big song and dance for months if they win.
February 24, 2007 at 5:21 PM
Anonymous
said...
country in the world and have a higher GDP per capita than you guys.
Luxembourg has a higher GDP per capita than Britain....rule of thumb...the smaller and more inconsequential a strip of land is the higher their GDP per capita - look at Dubai !
I just think Britain should leave the EU and send bilateral aid to Ireland instead of through the EU.....the Germans probably think the same
February 24, 2007 at 6:03 PM
Anonymous
said...
I preface this by saying my old dad was an Irish catholic who spent 30 years in a premier league British regiment (whose successor still recruits both north and south of the border). For good measure my uncle fought in the Heer on the Russian front. So some interesting childhood loyalties to work out. I can assure you that any antipathy that does exist is reserved for the memory of the Black and Tans (and later the B Specials) rather than Brits in general.
For God's sake, the past is a different country. Let's not judge it by the standards of the present.
February 24, 2007 at 6:16 PM
Anonymous
said...
Its difficult to feel sympathy for the Irish when my own country is being run by Europe and the Scots.
Other than the fact that the English now know how it feels.
What was the point of the Irish expending so much energy and human life to gain "independence." When all they have done is allow themselves to be sold down the European river?
Quote "Meet the new boss same as the old boss." Roger Daltry
Full story please. Suppressio veri, suggestio falsi.
That was after the murder of 14 British officers in Dublin earlier that day. Some shot in front of their wives.
A/c/t Wikipedia
"The operation was planned by several senior IRA members, including Michael Collins, Dick McKee, Liam Tobin, Peadar Clancy, Tom Cullen, Frank Thornton and Oscar Traynor. The killings were deliberately planned to coincide with the big Gaelic football match between County Dublin and County Tipperary because the large crowds around Dublin would provide easier movement and less chance of detection for the members of Collins' "Squad" carrying out the assassinations."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Gang
February 24, 2007 at 6:56 PM
Anonymous
said...
BTW The Irish are a tribe of people that come from a place later known as Ireland.
They therefore are colonalist agressers in the same way that the Mercians under the desendants of Alfred the great created England.
The Scots are also a tribe that come from a place later to be called Scotland.
February 24, 2007 at 7:00 PM
Anonymous
said...
You can have N.Ireland. You can have Scotland and Wales! Independence for England NOW!
February 24, 2007 at 7:23 PM
Anonymous
said...
England couldn't win a p-- up in a brewery ,at anything these days..
February 24, 2007 at 7:30 PM
Anonymous
said...
newmania 4.11pm "the Irish are going to choke. They usually do"
Thank God I don't buy financial products from you. What a third rate prat.
Remind the rest of us what the score was?
February 24, 2007 at 7:31 PM
Anonymous
said...
garypowell:"Its difficult to feel sympathy for the Irish when my own country is being run by Europe and the Scots"
I see garypowell is spouting his usual cobblers. Here are the facts:
1) 50m people in England elected a majority of Labour MPs;
2) 5m people in Scotland elected a small portion of Labour MPs (out of all Labour MPs);
3) Whilst the current constitutional arrangements leave a lot to be desired, it was created by a Labour government, elected three times with a Labour majority in England.
It is not the fault of the Scots - Labour won three elections in England under the current rules. If enoough English people were that bothered they'd could have and can still vote accordingly.
Please complain about the system rather than spouting bigoted cobblers about the Scots!
P.S. Given the drubbing Scotland got from England a fortnight ago, today's drubbing in Ireland was most enjoyable! :-)
Proud Brit ( Sweaty sock variety I assume).....Here are some more facts although I fear I may run foul of the no debating rule . Still it is taxing my patience to put up with the sort of ignorant and pointless gibberish you seem to enjoy. The House of Commons currently has 659 members with only 529 parliamentary seats allocated to England. While England does not have a national assembly, on really democratic principles, England should have greater representation than the devolved nations, but should certainly at worst should not have lesser representation. In fact the system discriminates heavily against England and although England represents c. 86.3% of the population of the former United Kingdom and accordingly England should therefore have 569 seats in the House of Commons, while in reality, it is 40 seats short of its minimum proper representation. At present nearly 20% of the seats in the House of Commons have been allocated to c. 13.8% of the population of the former United Kingdom. This means that the devolved parts of the United Kingdom, in addition to having their own assembly, are nearly 50% over represented in Westminster. Whereas on any fair answer to the West-Lothian question they should be substantially under-represented at Westminster.
If , as seems likely, the Lying scotsman is going to rely on Scottish seats to shove a socialist agenda onto the English these problems will be insuperbale. Without them there will never be another Labour Governement
That is why we are ruled by the scots and the EU
Mac Tosser
February 24, 2007 at 8:45 PM
Anonymous
said...
newmania: I notice you have ducked the point about the Irish choking "They usually do", I think you said. Was it 43 - 13: or did I get it wrong? I would rather buy insurance products from a snake oil salesman. 43-13 43-13 43-13 Now would you like to revisit your earlier post?
February 24, 2007 at 8:56 PM
Anonymous
said...
A cental tenant of fair and negitimate democracy is to be governed first by people that SPEAK YOUR LANGUAGE.
If not how can you tell when they are lieing apart from watching their mouths move.
Then also by people that share in the consequences of the laws that are enacted.
Laws enacted by people that dont share in the consequences are compleatly undemocratic and will be the ultimate destuction of any such system.
I have no problem with Scotland or the Scotish at all, as I dont with any ordinary people. However politicians and the damage they do, are compleatly different things entirely.
It seems that proad brit is not as proad of being British as he would like. Because he thinks being British is a political statement rather then a geographic and cultural one.
We are all British whether we like it or not, or even whether we vote for calling ourselves British or not. Just like we are all Europeans whether we like it or not.
But it does not mean I have to like being run by politicians that hate and dispise, to the point of wanting to destroy, my nations history and its legacy to the world.
February 24, 2007 at 9:08 PM
Anonymous
said...
Speak your language? The Scots speak English...what language do you speak?
I barely understand all this sort of thing anyhow. My dad's a Scot and my mum's English, and I find the idea of being governed by Scots no stranger than being governed by Cornishmen or Liverpudlians.
If the Tories were back in, Liverpudlians could all complain that they were being governed by a south-easterners.
Scotland shouldn't have its own parliament in my view. But I don't for the life of me see how Brown and the Scottish MPs "hate and despise, to the point of wanting to destroy, [your] nation's history and its legacy to the world."
One problem I have with comments like this is that they encourage Brown to emphasise his British credentials, and I think this just encourages separatist debate and animosity.
--
Congrats to the Irish on their rugby triumph. Scotland were mauled so I'm hitting the whisky.
February 24, 2007 at 9:32 PM
Anonymous
said...
newmania and garypowell, if you two had a reasonable grasp of spelling, grammar and punctuation then you might be able to make a case for yourselves, Still, your illiterate sputterings are quite amusing in themselves.
Gary Powell "British " is not an identity it is a statement of entitlement. That`s why Trevor Phillips is so keen to keep it .England is a country not a set of regions . Its quite a different thing.
Alright so the Diddly`s won.They were in fact by far the better team. Bollocks.Our Pack were useless and Farrell isn`t good enough
Anony diddle-Ironically it's the same for most of the Irish - they have little or no interest in their neighbours.
How I love to here the Spuds crowing about the success of their low tax economy. Of course this could not have been achieved without suckling EU handouts like a greedy little pig . The single and only reason for their success . Right you are though ,more fool us for allowing ourselves to be conned year in year out . In fact since I `ve done the democratic deficit lets have a look at how the sweaties and sundry other grubby foreigners have their hands in our pockets.
The current English taxpayer’s subsidy to the Scottish Exchequer is some £20 billion per year and growing, which approximately equates to over £1,000 per English taxpayer. Public spending in Scotland is now 23%, (Government spending of £5,271 per head in Scotland), above the English average. In Northern Ireland the figure is 39%, (£5,939 per head), and 18%, (£5,052 per head), in Wales. This compares with a figure of £4,283 for England. If the subsidies to all parts of the United Kingdom were taken into account it is likely that each English taxpayer is paying £3,000 each year to subsidise the other parts of the former United Kingdom. If the subsidy to the European Union ( and we actually get to watch the Paddy`s spending it , oh joy ) was taken into account, that figure would rise to over £4000 every year.
Literati .. ..I can think of few things more tragic than a flaccid slab of dullnes polished by its proud owner to a pitch of worthless correctness . Bravo.
February 24, 2007 at 9:47 PM
Anonymous
said...
Newmania said... The current English taxpayer’s subsidy to the Scottish Exchequer is some £20 billion per year and growing
.............
Which would be about 5 times the proportion of war torn Iraq's deficit to expenditure.
People that have a go at peoples spelling without dealing with the arguments put forward are in my opinion deserve contempt.
This is not an English exam it is political discourse. I am a business man not a university don. If you have something to say about the well thought out relevant points I or Newmania have made, you may redeam yourself. But somehow I think you dont have the brain in which to have any, or the experience of real life from which to form any worthwhile ones.
Get used to it because I hear that over 25% of this countries graduates dont have reading standards of kidds that left school at 15, 60 years ago.
The crowd behaved superbly. One can only imagine how a soccer crowd would have behaved ....
February 24, 2007 at 10:52 PM
Anonymous
said...
I'm Scottish and the bleedin' Italians have beaten us at home.
Bloody hell! If it was football, we wouldn't mind so much, but this is our game.
February 24, 2007 at 11:22 PM
Anonymous
said...
Lot of sentimental Irish bullshit...
February 24, 2007 at 11:51 PM
Anonymous
said...
garypowell said...
6:46pm says to me you were fishing and caught one ,did I get that right ,we have a British passport we live in Britain ,but we are English ,Scottish or Welsh as a race ,but there is no British as a race.
February 24, 2007 at 11:52 PM
Anonymous
said...
mutleythedog said He appears to be, been quiet.
You still got that blog that lives on the top shelf wrapped in plastic, or have you reformed ?
February 24, 2007 at 11:56 PM
Anonymous
said...
To my knowledge European politicians do not speak English.
Even if they do they do not speak it in a way that ordinary people can easily formulate a quick smart opinion.
Could someone name a country that has a succesfull liberal democracy where the people dont understand what their politicians are saying? Because I know of none.
I have no trobble understanding Gordon Brown He speaks English, last time I listened anyway. I understand that I dont like a single thing he says and dont trust him on anything else.
Not because he is Scotish but because he is a socialist and an MP for a Scotish constituency not politicaly accountable for what he does in England.
Also because of his track record, and his rather disturbing body language.
Some of the greatest Liberal thinkers in human history were Scotish. Gordon Brown is not one of them.
Quite frankly I dont know what any European politicians really think and I pay attention.
How on earth do you expect the average ordinary person who does not spend every wakeing day glued to political internet sights to understand which European politicians really can be trusted. When they dont understand a word that leaves their lipps?
Never mind believe that they could possibly be acting in their interests, even if they were.
Or dont you socialists care what ordinary people think anymore?
Democracy is not just about voting every 5 years it is about ruling with the consent of the people.
February 25, 2007 at 12:11 AM
Anonymous
said...
guido as ever you are an idiot the first blody sunday was on November 13th, 1887 trafalgar square you really are ignorant but I forgive you you can't help your prejudice
February 25, 2007 at 1:31 AM
Anonymous
said...
first catholicism, then this.
This blog is fast losing credibility.
February 25, 2007 at 2:14 AM
Anonymous
said...
Anon 11:52 Not sure I have any idear what you are talking about. But never mind it wont stop me putting in my few more cents worth.
Being British however many times someone tells you it is, is not, never was, and never could be a race.
But the Irish the Scotish the Welsh and the English are all British. Least they were last time I looked at a map.
Because of this geographic fact, and because of our entwined history, resulting in us useing a common language. We are all part of British culture. We all share a British history. British passport or not, like it or not, vote for it or not. Even get sold down the river by you own Scotish government or not.
A British passport is simply a political document, created after the act of union, and has nothing whatsoever to do with British culture, or being British.
My primary interest is people and their history, not the traps and obsticles that politics and religion create to divide and rule their fellow man.
You would have to go around the world in a box not to notice the difference between a place based on British culture and one that is not.
BTW Well done Ireland even if you would be pushed to find any of them that would describe their first language as anything other then English. They will all go down the club/pub and get pissed just the same as the English will.
February 25, 2007 at 2:48 AM
Anonymous
said...
Anon 12:14 Thank you for your valuable and insitefull comments. You have really given me much to ponder as I go to bed. It must be a good feeling for you to know that you have made such a worthwhile and thought provoking contribution to the future of international and domestic relations.
Good night.
February 25, 2007 at 3:01 AM
Anonymous
said...
Bet you were in a quandry when they tried to kill your hero Mrs T, eh Guido?
February 25, 2007 at 6:08 AM
Anonymous
said...
Why do the Welsh and particularly the Scots receive none of the ire directed at the England team? Ulster was pretty much ruled by Scots but the English get all the blame. Pah.
If I was Irish I'd be very pleased with the win and the performance but sick at missing out on the Grand Slam. The "beat England and have a good season" small-mindedness will mean most wont see it that way.
I find it easier to be sympathetic towards the Irish. They are perhaps the only nation on the Celtic Fringe NOT trying to dictate to the English.
Ralph,
The Irish people I know (southern and catholic) tend to take as dim a view of the terrorists as most Brits. Admittedly it's not a wide and scientific sample, but Sinn Fein hasn't managed to form a majority government south of the border either. Just 'cos a guy carries a RoI passpaort and supports their rugby team doesn't mean he's an IRA fan.
Certain things need to be put in a little historical perspective. During the morning of Bloody Sunday,1920,the IRA shot 14 British undercover agents. Very terrible and annoying for the British,I am sure,but legitimate military targets in the circumstances. The shootings at Croke Park were straightforward revenge killings by The Black and Tans who were NOT British regular troops but there to provide replacement manpower for the Royal Irish Costabulary which was finding recruitment difficult (not surprisingly). They were in effect an irregular, mercenary force not subject to the normal discipline of regular troops. Whatever their role the political damage they did outweighed their real usefulness. Incidentally there were three,not two,men killed by the Black and Tans in Dublin Castle that evening to round off the day's activities.
February 25, 2007 at 11:30 AM
Anonymous
said...
Guido I have to admit your site ,if you don't know your history this is the place to come, all life (even low) is here.
February 25, 2007 at 11:52 AM
Anonymous
said...
Indeed, freesherry. The black and tans were militia, not military. Notoriously, they recruited a great many thugs who could not make it into the Constabulary or the Army.
The Irish were superb yesterday, fans and team alike. I'd like to see them contest a World Cup final against the All Blacks, and win it. My own team, having read their tactics sheet upside-down, found those pesky Italians too good yesterday and are unlikely to worry the scorers this autumn.
February 25, 2007 at 12:14 PM
Anonymous
said...
Peter Hain is the type of unpricipled opertunist that gives politics and politicians a bad name.
He has backed all types of things in the past and changed his mind sometimes almost the same day.
Like many of his light weight socialist chums he latches onto whatever prevailing fasion is going, then takes no personal responsibilty, when people DIE from the outcome of his actions.
He has been pro Mugabe and now is against Mugabe.
He has been for the Neo-Com agenda and is now against it.
He has been a Liberal and is now a socialist.
He has been passionately against the British government in Northern Ireland and now is part of that government.
He was a Kenyan then South African and is now British.
Is their anything at all that Peter Hain really does believe in because this man can change more often then his skin tone does?
Yes of course their is. Peter Hain believes in Peter Hain and the promotion of its ego to wherever he can take it.
February 25, 2007 at 2:46 PM
Anonymous
said...
"The shootings at Croke Park were straightforward revenge killings by The Black and Tans"
The Auxies actually.
February 25, 2007 at 2:52 PM
Anonymous
said...
remittence man Good point well made and very true.
I have known Irish families with sons in the IRA that dont support terrorism in any way at all.
Not just because they dont believe in violence either. Its because, just like all criminal organisations, the IRA terrorised their own people more then the "enemy."
Many Irish catholics in the south were far more intimidated by the IRA then they ever were by the British government. Which considering Ireland has been a Republic since the 1920s, is hardly surprising.
The simple point I was making. Was that I think we have enough problems to worry about with our own democracy to care to much about a place thats quite capable of sorting out its own problems.
Leave Peter Hain alone he is Tony Benn`s vicar on earth. ...now thats a title crying out for an accurate cross bow
February 25, 2007 at 4:05 PM
Anonymous
said...
meanwhile back at the rugby :-)
Just as well Scotland will be independent soon. seems all a bit messy the Irish/Lodon carry on.
But nowadays the irish think you're great just like the Scots and everybody else does ... feel the love :-)
February 25, 2007 at 5:48 PM
Anonymous
said...
Peter Hain if he had any moral standing at all. Would do what his name sake Peter Tatchall is now doing.
Trying to make some amends for his illegal activities, that were very much responsible for the rise of a communist dictator, that is Mugabe.
A man now responsible for hundreds of thousands of Stalinist type murders of his own people.
Instead of featherbedding himself in the corrupt world of British socialist politics.
A good question is: Why is Peter Hain living in Britain at all apart from his MPs wages?
I know its because Mugabe would have him dead in his fridge by now.
The spineless egocentric coward.
February 25, 2007 at 6:11 PM
Anonymous
said...
Gary,
And on that point I agree with you 100%.
By the way did Hain try and grandstand or did he decide discretion was the better part of valour? I'd imagine he'd recieve a distinctly unpositive reaction from any rugby crowd had he tried to make some sort of political brownie points out of a rugby game, regardless of the historical issues.
To my eternal regret I missed the match and the Telegraph doesn't report. My only excuse is that I was watching a Super 14 match with a bunch of committed Blue Bulls fans who wouldn't let me change the channels
February 25, 2007 at 7:48 PM
Anonymous
said...
Well done the Irish crowd for showing that they have moved on from the potato-loving simpletons we thought they were. By respecting the British national anthem they gave two fingers to the politicians and media-pundits who 'wanted to make something of it'.
Crushed by Ingsoc said... The shooting at Croke Park has to be the blackest day in the history of the British Empire since Cromwell.
Really? I thought the Amritsar massacre took that particular biscuit.
Hain should still fuck off.
February 25, 2007 at 10:36 PM
Anonymous
said...
@9.32pm Literati said... newmania and garypowell, if you two had a reasonable grasp of spelling, grammar and punctuation then you might be able to make a case for yourselves, Still, your illiterate sputterings are quite amusing in themselves.
You might want to take a look at your own punctuation. Still shouldn't have a capital letter after the comma you pedantic cunt. (people in glass houses etc....)
February 25, 2007 at 10:48 PM
Anonymous
said...
Not accurate I'm afraid Guido.
"Soldiers are we whose lives are pledged to Ireland.
Some have come from a land beyond the waves"
Born to be free. No more our ancient sireland
Shelter the the despot or the slave"
It makes the point that the the Irish people also exist abroad and were coming back to fight for Ireland - not that everyone beyond the waves were tyrants.
A number of signatories to te Proclamation of Independence were indeed born in England of Irish or Anglo-Irish stock and did indeed return to fight and be executed. However when Peadar Kearney wrote the words in 1907 he would not be aware of that fact but was really refering to the Irish disapera which judging by the flights back to the UK on Sunday after the match still very much exists.
February 26, 2007 at 11:43 AM
Anonymous
said...
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the general view that hte match at Croke park was a "good thing". There's nothing wrong with England losing -- all teams do it all the time. What sticks in my throat is the blatant surrounding of a sporting fixture with irrelevant history. Who knows what effect it had on the Enland team or their support? Who knows how much the Irish were driven on? Was the referee mindful of it? The answer to all is that it should not have been in the first place. The RFU should have told the Irish that they wouldn't play there at all; a suitable response to the 80-odd years of two-fingered salute that has been coming the other way. Are there no other pitches in the country?
February 26, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Anonymous
said...
Newmania: "How I love to here the Spuds crowing about the success of their low tax economy. Of course this could not have been achieved without suckling EU handouts like a greedy little pig . The single and only reason for their success . Right you are though ,more fool us for allowing ourselves to be conned year in year out ."
While I've no doubt that by the use of terms such as "Spuds" you're trolling, for the benefit of those who may give your silly comments more than a passing glance it should be noted that Ireland is a net contributor to the EU coffers.
Also, if EU largesse was the main driver of the Irish economy, then why are Spain, Portugal and Greece still doing so badly?
I was at the game myself, all the worrying about the game was a load of bollocks.
On the way in, along the tiny backstreets leading up to the stadium I only saw one silent protest.
two guys in irish colours, face painted with the flag, and a placard saying Rememeber (and the name of one of the dead), killed by the black and tans.
They didnt say or do anything, just stood there making their point.
In the stadium during the anthems there were a few dissenting voices, but they were drowned out by the away fans (and i suspect some of the home fans too). The Irish Anthem was ear splittingly loud, and even I was a little choked at the prospect.
I dont understand (or even care) about the politics, it was a good event, and well staged by the GAA.
Peter Hain was just politiking and quite frankly its pathetic.
92 comments:
So what is 'Free' in the Irish Free State then? Perhaps the English should get equally uptight about the singing of the French National Anthem (Bonaparte) or the German National Anthem (The Kaiser & Hitler?) at a sports event??
The location is significant.
I hope that nowadays the ordinary British soldier is given some basic education about political realities.I remember the Nationalist Northern Irish women banging dustbin lids in proximity to our troops.In the hope that one or several would lose discipline and lash out.
They can swear to be free all they like, but when Wilko starts smacking the drop goals and penalties they can swear because they're beaten!
I agree about Hain, of course... I don't think he should be let near a rugby pitch, let alone on one!
As an Irish person and indeed somebody who has played Gaelic games and attended Croke Park infrequently, I think we should just let the sport do the talking or, as the case may be, singing.
I don't particularly like the British national anthem but I think it should be afforded the respect that all other national anthems are afforded in sporting arenas around the world.
I realise that, Garth Brooks aside, Croke Park is somewhat sacred turf but it's time to be mature and move on. It's been almost 100 years and what better way to show the face of the new, modern Ireland than to act in a mature and considered fashion.
This is particularly so given that a large number of our supporters and indeed some of our first XV hail from the North and may actually themselves hold British passports.
Otherwise, let's kick some English ass!
Rugby was one those thing's that I didn't think had been "tainted" now that trash Hain is going to help it along.
Just get on with the game and we'll see who wins.
Hain is a prick - the Irish should make him the focus of any hostilities.
I should also say that I think that the Sinn Fein protest is ill-considered and stupid.
If GAA delegates from Armagh and the border counties are fine with Croke Park being opened up for rugby and the rest of the GAA is in accord, then this is not a live issue.
The overwhelming majority of Irish opinion also supports permitting rugby and soccer be played in Croke Park, so all in all, the protest is incredibly stupid and not "populist" in the usual Sinn Fein campaign sense. It just makes them look bitter and slightly out-of-touch.
An own-goal of epic proportions, you might say.
I am in Argentina at the moment - another good rugby country - and the opening up of Croke Park and the debate surrounding the British national anthem has made the sporting press here and been subject to quite a bit of discussion.
It's really quite amusing - of course all of the 6 Nations games are live on television here.
I am reminded of a recent tv programme about the Suez in which an Egyptian who had experienced it and fought against the invading troops pointed out that troops always do something to inflame the local populace, they are after all soldiers not diplomats. Thats why invading forces are never welcome and the longer they stay the more they inflame. 100 years later we are still experiencing the repercussions of British troops in Ireland. How many years will our current ill judged interventions in Iraq be felt?
Actually, it's the British national anthem. The English haven't got one.
Perhaps the Irish will have the same opinion for the Welsh and Scottish? After all, it was a Welsh PM at the time and Butcher Hague isn't exactly one of ours.
Will they?
As a rallying call, this one is doing the rounds right now and is being adopted for May 1st. England is rising -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5h4PFBuzvw
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look and the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
How will we know where we've come from?
I’ve lost St George in the Union Jack
It’s my flag too and I want it back
Guido I noted your point about the place. Mind you if I was Irish and had the prospect of a vote-seeking Foreign Politician trying to muscle-in on a sporting event then I might take a dim view as well.
The repercussions of Prince Harry being deployed to Iraq will be felt for many years to come - amongst the rubble, a vast network of strip clubs and polo canchas will criss-cross the once great state.
Paddy Maine was an Irish Rugby International, from the North, and one of the most decorated British soldiers of WWII, whilst a founding member of the SAS.
He is also a BIG hero to the Unionists in the North.
It might be worth remembering the contribution that Northern Irish players make to Irish Rugby, before using an Irish Rugby game as an excuse to twat on about how nasty the British were to the Irish umptey thrumptey years ago.
Another thought - Hain might be "British" by citizenship but he's certainy not English so what the f*ck is he doing at an England International?
2:43 PM
So I am not the only one who's p---d off, good tune.
"remember the Nationalist Northern Irish women banging dustbin lids in proximity to our troops.In the hope that one or several would lose discipline and lash out."
Actually they did that during the internment years. The army would come and search and they would bang the lids to warn all the local lads.
I am sure the Irish fans will show how the country has moved on - no longer holding that ancient hatred for the English. There will always be that minority of old reactionaries but most people are there for a good old sporting contest and nothing more.
100 years later we are still experiencing the repercussions of British troops in Ireland. How many years will our current ill judged interventions in Iraq be felt?
Do I care ? Maybe if the Irish looked at the Koreans they could see how far you can move ahead in life after a real war and a real occupation and a real enemy.......
We (the Irish) are much farther ahead of Korea - in fact, we have a much higher standard of living, are the most "globalised" (cf. economically open) country in the world and have a higher GDP per capita than you guys.
I don't like your use of the word "real". In fact, nothing you say has merit and what you say is entirely predicated on ignorance.
Also, last time I checked, I don't believe our neighbour to the north was developing nuclear weapons. I might be wrong, though.
I thought we were all supposed to be,'Citizens of Europe,'now;or am I just a misguided cynic?
Why repeat the Hain story which has been nailed fully two weeks ago. Is Parbury right? Has your blog gone down the toilet GF?
England of course turned up in 1973 when noone else did . What the Irish do not , and never will , understand is the complete and utter disinterest the English have for them , their mistily mis-remembered history and their existence in an imaginative world paralell to , but not part of the real world .
I have a feeling the Irish are going to choke. They usually do
Chris Paul - The cunt Hain is nonetheless sticking his snout where it is not required with his glib implication that somehow he can take some credit for this event.
Never mind rugger buggars. Today's Guardian is putting the spotlight on Brown and his mate Ronnie Cohen:
"...Private equity has become so powerful that a handful of firms own businesses that employ one in every five workers in the private sector in Britain.
The firms are largely secretive, rarely give interviews and do not disclose who invests in their funds.
The industry meanwhile has made a small number of people who manage the funds immensely rich.
Sir Ronald Cohen, the Labour donor and adviser to chancellor Gordon Brown who founded private equity firm Apax, is said to be worth £250m...."
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2020188,00.html
Keep politics out of sport. If Hain turns up with a bunch of flowers he should be told to fuck off. It should be a great match.
"Hey Guido I see Thea Rogers is at it again !"
Was just reading her Christ Church yearbook entry from the 2003-04 yearbook. "We'll be seeing more of her soon - either reading the News or making it". Very prophetic.
Let us pay tribute to Irish creativity. It was, after all, the world's first 'flyover state'. Even from 35,000 feet it looks like a waste of space.
Sinn Fein are trying to stir up trouble with a protest at the ground.
I believe the protest is actually by Republican Sinn Fein, a much smaller political party.
Bunch of filty traitors. The problem with Britain is that it has lost its nerve in dealing with insurgents and terrorists, and did so such a long time ago.
The "Free" state is as free as the "Orange Free State" was. Death to the enemies of the Queen, restor the counties to the Union!
Hain should really get the old treatment for this: hang draw and quarter
Name a small nation next to a big nation that doesn't think it's been the pure and innocent victim of injustice and oppression. England could have behaved much better and could have behaved much worse, but let's not pretend there's any special virtue in its victims.
Newmania said...
"England of course turned up in 1973 when noone else did . What the Irish do not , and never will , understand is the complete and utter disinterest the English have for them , their mistily mis-remembered history. "
Ironically it's the same for most of the Irish - they have little or no interest in their neighbours. Believe me, the Irish know their history and know of the past tragedies and frankly couldn't give a flying stuff anymore. Ireland is a confident country comfortable with itself and it's all of it's neighbours.
And if they live in an "imaginative world" it's a pretty sucessful imagination the Irish have.
As an Irishman, I'm hoping the Irish anthem is going to be sung in Irish, not 'Gaelic'.
"Anonymous said...
Let us pay tribute to Irish creativity. It was, after all, the world's first 'flyover state'. Even from 35,000 feet it looks like a waste of space."
And they say the smaller nation is normally the one with the inferiority complex!
Anonymong,
Gaelic as an adjective means "pertaining to the Gaels", including language and culture.
As a noun, it may refer to the group of languages spoken by the Gaels, or to any one of the individual languages.
Irish (Gaeilge), a Goidelic language spoken in Ireland
Irish Gaelic might be a better description, but since Mrs Fawkes and Angus MacNeil seem to be able to converse fluently...
Look, if you've done a bit in the Empire line, there's pretty much someone everywhere who can rustle up a grudge or two against you - there isn't a family round the Khyber Pass that doesn't have a story about how great grandad potted a Brit or two.
The Irish boys don't take it too badly when they loose and don't make a big song and dance for months if they win.
country in the world and have a higher GDP per capita than you guys.
Luxembourg has a higher GDP per capita than Britain....rule of thumb...the smaller and more inconsequential a strip of land is the higher their GDP per capita - look at Dubai !
I just think Britain should leave the EU and send bilateral aid to Ireland instead of through the EU.....the Germans probably think the same
I preface this by saying my old dad was an Irish catholic who spent 30 years in a premier league British regiment (whose successor still recruits both north and south of the border). For good measure my uncle fought in the Heer on the Russian front. So some interesting childhood loyalties to work out. I can assure you that any antipathy that does exist is reserved for the memory of the Black and Tans (and later the B Specials) rather than Brits in general.
For God's sake, the past is a different country. Let's not judge it by the standards of the present.
Its difficult to feel sympathy for the Irish when my own country is being run by Europe and the Scots.
Other than the fact that the English now know how it feels.
What was the point of the Irish expending so much energy and human life to gain "independence." When all they have done is allow themselves to be sold down the European river?
Quote
"Meet the new boss same as the old boss."
Roger Daltry
Full story please. Suppressio veri, suggestio falsi.
That was after the murder of 14 British officers in Dublin earlier that day. Some shot in front of their wives.
A/c/t Wikipedia
"The operation was planned by several senior IRA members, including Michael Collins, Dick McKee, Liam Tobin, Peadar Clancy, Tom Cullen, Frank Thornton and Oscar Traynor. The killings were deliberately planned to coincide with the big Gaelic football match between County Dublin and County Tipperary because the large crowds around Dublin would provide easier movement and less chance of detection for the members of Collins' "Squad" carrying out the assassinations."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Gang
BTW
The Irish are a tribe of people that come from a place later known as Ireland.
They therefore are colonalist agressers in the same way that the Mercians under the desendants of Alfred the great created England.
The Scots are also a tribe that come from a place later to be called Scotland.
You can have N.Ireland. You can have Scotland and Wales!
Independence for England NOW!
England couldn't win a p-- up in a brewery ,at anything these days..
newmania 4.11pm
"the Irish are going to choke. They usually do"
Thank God I don't buy financial products from you. What a third rate prat.
Remind the rest of us what the score was?
garypowell: "Its difficult to feel sympathy for the Irish when my own country is being run by Europe and the Scots"
I see garypowell is spouting his usual cobblers. Here are the facts:
1) 50m people in England elected a majority of Labour MPs;
2) 5m people in Scotland elected a small portion of Labour MPs (out of all Labour MPs);
3) Whilst the current constitutional arrangements leave a lot to be desired, it was created by a Labour government, elected three times with a Labour majority in England.
It is not the fault of the Scots - Labour won three elections in England under the current rules. If enoough English people were that bothered they'd could have and can still vote accordingly.
Please complain about the system rather than spouting bigoted cobblers about the Scots!
P.S. Given the drubbing Scotland got from England a fortnight ago, today's drubbing in Ireland was most enjoyable! :-)
IRELAND!
43-13. I've been waiting for this for 6 years.
Thrashing!
And, what's more, the Irish crowd didn't boo God Save Our Dirge, which was good of them!
proud brit
dont give me the straw man treatment.
Where did I say that we did not elect our prison guards. The Irish voted for theirs as well, but it does not change the reality.
Could you tell me what I said that was biggoted? Or untrue. Because after readin your garbage it is clear to me who is the biggot.
By the way I am of Welsh desent the clue is in the name.
Proud Brit ( Sweaty sock variety I assume).....Here are some more facts although I fear I may run foul of the no debating rule .
Still it is taxing my patience to put up with the sort of ignorant and pointless gibberish you seem to enjoy.
The House of Commons currently has 659 members with only 529 parliamentary seats allocated to England. While England does not have a national assembly, on really democratic principles, England should have greater representation than the devolved nations, but should certainly at worst should not have lesser representation.
In fact the system discriminates heavily against England and although England represents c. 86.3% of the population of the former United Kingdom and accordingly England should therefore have 569 seats in the House of Commons, while in reality, it is 40 seats short of its minimum proper representation. At present nearly 20% of the seats in the House of Commons have been allocated to c. 13.8% of the population of the former United Kingdom. This means that the devolved parts of the United Kingdom, in addition to having their own assembly, are nearly 50% over represented in Westminster. Whereas on any fair answer to the West-Lothian question they should be substantially under-represented at Westminster.
If , as seems likely, the Lying scotsman is going to rely on Scottish seats to shove a socialist agenda onto the English these problems will be insuperbale. Without them there will never be another Labour Governement
That is why we are ruled by the scots and the EU
Mac Tosser
newmania: I notice you have ducked the point about the Irish choking "They usually do", I think you said.
Was it 43 - 13: or did I get it wrong?
I would rather buy insurance products from a snake oil salesman.
43-13
43-13
43-13
Now would you like to revisit your earlier post?
A cental tenant of fair and negitimate democracy is to be governed first by people that SPEAK YOUR LANGUAGE.
If not how can you tell when they are lieing apart from watching their mouths move.
Then also by people that share in the consequences of the laws that are enacted.
Laws enacted by people that dont share in the consequences are compleatly undemocratic and will be the ultimate destuction of any such system.
I have no problem with Scotland or the Scotish at all, as I dont with any ordinary people. However politicians and the damage they do, are compleatly different things entirely.
It seems that proad brit is not as proad of being British as he would like. Because he thinks being British is a political statement rather then a geographic and cultural one.
We are all British whether we like it or not, or even whether we vote for calling ourselves British or not. Just like we are all Europeans whether we like it or not.
But it does not mean I have to like being run by politicians that hate and dispise, to the point of wanting to destroy, my nations history and its legacy to the world.
Speak your language? The Scots speak English...what language do you speak?
I barely understand all this sort of thing anyhow. My dad's a Scot and my mum's English, and I find the idea of being governed by Scots no stranger than being governed by Cornishmen or Liverpudlians.
If the Tories were back in, Liverpudlians could all complain that they were being governed by a south-easterners.
Scotland shouldn't have its own parliament in my view. But I don't for the life of me see how Brown and the Scottish MPs "hate and despise, to the point of wanting to destroy, [your] nation's history and its legacy to the world."
One problem I have with comments like this is that they encourage Brown to emphasise his British credentials, and I think this just encourages separatist debate and animosity.
--
Congrats to the Irish on their rugby triumph. Scotland were mauled so I'm hitting the whisky.
newmania and garypowell, if you two had a reasonable grasp of spelling, grammar and punctuation then you might be able to make a case for yourselves, Still, your illiterate sputterings are quite amusing in themselves.
Gary Powell "British " is not an identity it is a statement of entitlement. That`s why Trevor Phillips is so keen to keep it .England is a country not a set of regions . Its quite a different thing.
Alright so the Diddly`s won.They were in fact by far the better team. Bollocks.Our Pack were useless and Farrell isn`t good enough
Anony diddle-Ironically it's the same for most of the Irish - they have little or no interest in their neighbours.
How I love to here the Spuds crowing about the success of their low tax economy. Of course this could not have been achieved without suckling EU handouts like a greedy little pig . The single and only reason for their success . Right you are though ,more fool us for allowing ourselves to be conned year in year out .
In fact since I `ve done the democratic deficit lets have a look at how the sweaties and sundry other grubby foreigners have their hands in our pockets.
The current English taxpayer’s subsidy to the Scottish Exchequer is some £20 billion per year and growing, which approximately equates to over £1,000 per English taxpayer. Public spending in Scotland is now 23%, (Government spending of £5,271 per head in Scotland), above the English average. In Northern Ireland the figure is 39%, (£5,939 per head), and 18%, (£5,052 per head), in Wales. This compares with a figure of £4,283 for England.
If the subsidies to all parts of the United Kingdom were taken into account it is likely that each English taxpayer is paying £3,000 each year to subsidise the other parts of the former United Kingdom. If the subsidy to the European Union ( and we actually get to watch the Paddy`s spending it , oh joy ) was taken into account, that figure would rise to over £4000 every year.
Literati .. ..I can think of few things more tragic than a flaccid slab of dullnes polished by its proud owner to a pitch of worthless correctness . Bravo.
Newmania said... The current English taxpayer’s subsidy to the Scottish Exchequer is some £20 billion per year and growing
.............
Which would be about 5 times the proportion of war torn Iraq's deficit to expenditure.
Are you Comical Toni by any chance?
People that have a go at peoples spelling without dealing with the arguments put forward are in my opinion deserve contempt.
This is not an English exam it is political discourse. I am a business man not a university don. If you have something to say about the well thought out relevant points I or Newmania have made, you may redeam yourself. But somehow I think you dont have the brain in which to have any, or the experience of real life from which to form any worthwhile ones.
Get used to it because I hear that over 25% of this countries graduates dont have reading standards of kidds that left school at 15, 60 years ago.
The shooting at Croke Park has to be the blackest day in the history of the British Empire since Cromwell.
It is right that Hain lays a wreath.
The crowd behaved superbly. One can only imagine how a soccer crowd would have behaved ....
I'm Scottish and the bleedin' Italians have beaten us at home.
Bloody hell! If it was football, we wouldn't mind so much, but this is our game.
Lot of sentimental Irish bullshit...
garypowell said...
6:46pm says to me you were fishing and caught one ,did I get that right ,we have a British passport we live in Britain ,but we are English ,Scottish or Welsh as a race ,but there is no British as a race.
mutleythedog said
He appears to be, been quiet.
You still got that blog that lives on the top shelf wrapped in plastic, or have you reformed ?
To my knowledge European politicians do not speak English.
Even if they do they do not speak it in a way that ordinary people can easily formulate a quick smart opinion.
Could someone name a country that has a succesfull liberal democracy where the people dont understand what their politicians are saying? Because I know of none.
I have no trobble understanding Gordon Brown He speaks English, last time I listened anyway. I understand that I dont like a single thing he says and dont trust him on anything else.
Not because he is Scotish but because he is a socialist and an MP for a Scotish constituency not politicaly accountable for what he does in England.
Also because of his track record, and his rather disturbing body language.
Some of the greatest Liberal thinkers in human history were Scotish. Gordon Brown is not one of them.
Quite frankly I dont know what any European politicians really think and I pay attention.
How on earth do you expect the average ordinary person who does not spend every wakeing day glued to political internet sights to understand which European politicians really can be trusted. When they dont understand a word that leaves their lipps?
Never mind believe that they could possibly be acting in their interests, even if they were.
Or dont you socialists care what ordinary people think anymore?
Democracy is not just about voting every 5 years it is about ruling with the consent of the people.
guido as ever you are an idiot
the first blody sunday was on November 13th, 1887
trafalgar square
you really are ignorant
but I forgive you
you can't help your prejudice
first catholicism, then this.
This blog is fast losing credibility.
Anon 11:52
Not sure I have any idear what you are talking about. But never mind it wont stop me putting in my few more cents worth.
Being British however many times someone tells you it is, is not, never was, and never could be a race.
But the Irish the Scotish the Welsh and the English are all British. Least they were last time I looked at a map.
Because of this geographic fact, and because of our entwined history, resulting in us useing a common language. We are all part of British culture. We all share a British history. British passport or not, like it or not, vote for it or not. Even get sold down the river by you own Scotish government or not.
A British passport is simply a political document, created after the act of union, and has nothing whatsoever to do with British culture, or being British.
My primary interest is people and their history, not the traps and obsticles that politics and religion create to divide and rule their fellow man.
You would have to go around the world in a box not to notice the difference between a place based on British culture and one that is not.
BTW
Well done Ireland even if you would be pushed to find any of them that would describe their first language as anything other then English. They will all go down the club/pub and get pissed just the same as the English will.
Anon
12:14
Thank you for your valuable and insitefull comments. You have really given me much to ponder as I go to bed. It must be a good feeling for you to know that you have made such a worthwhile and thought provoking contribution to the future of international and domestic relations.
Good night.
Bet you were in a quandry when they tried to kill your hero Mrs T, eh Guido?
Why do the Welsh and particularly the Scots receive none of the ire directed at the England team? Ulster was pretty much ruled by Scots but the English get all the blame. Pah.
If I was Irish I'd be very pleased with the win and the performance but sick at missing out on the Grand Slam. The "beat England and have a good season" small-mindedness will mean most wont see it that way.
Actually, Gary,
I find it easier to be sympathetic towards the Irish. They are perhaps the only nation on the Celtic Fringe NOT trying to dictate to the English.
Ralph,
The Irish people I know (southern and catholic) tend to take as dim a view of the terrorists as most Brits. Admittedly it's not a wide and scientific sample, but Sinn Fein hasn't managed to form a majority government south of the border either. Just 'cos a guy carries a RoI passpaort and supports their rugby team doesn't mean he's an IRA fan.
Ralph,
No quandry at all. And she is not my hero.
She is my heroine.
Certain things need to be put in a little historical perspective. During the morning of Bloody Sunday,1920,the IRA shot 14 British undercover agents. Very terrible and annoying for the British,I am sure,but legitimate military targets in the circumstances.
The shootings at Croke Park were straightforward revenge killings by The Black and Tans who were NOT British regular troops but there to provide replacement manpower for the Royal Irish Costabulary which was finding recruitment difficult (not surprisingly). They were in effect an irregular, mercenary force not subject to the normal discipline of regular troops. Whatever their role the political damage they did outweighed their real usefulness.
Incidentally there were three,not two,men killed by the Black and Tans in Dublin Castle that evening to round off the day's activities.
Guido I have to admit your site ,if you don't know your history this is the place to come, all life (even low) is here.
Indeed, freesherry. The black and tans were militia, not military. Notoriously, they recruited a great many thugs who could not make it into the Constabulary or the Army.
The Irish were superb yesterday, fans and team alike. I'd like to see them contest a World Cup final against the All Blacks, and win it. My own team, having read their tactics sheet upside-down, found those pesky Italians too good yesterday and are unlikely to worry the scorers this autumn.
Peter Hain is the type of unpricipled opertunist that gives politics and politicians a bad name.
He has backed all types of things in the past and changed his mind sometimes almost the same day.
Like many of his light weight socialist chums he latches onto whatever prevailing fasion is going, then takes no personal responsibilty, when people DIE from the outcome of his actions.
He has been pro Mugabe and now is against Mugabe.
He has been for the Neo-Com agenda and is now against it.
He has been a Liberal and is now a socialist.
He has been passionately against the British government in Northern Ireland and now is part of that government.
He was a Kenyan then South African and is now British.
Is their anything at all that Peter Hain really does believe in because this man can change more often then his skin tone does?
Yes of course their is. Peter Hain believes in Peter Hain and the promotion of its ego to wherever he can take it.
"The shootings at Croke Park were straightforward revenge killings by The Black and Tans"
The Auxies actually.
remittence man
Good point well made and very true.
I have known Irish families with sons in the IRA that dont support terrorism in any way at all.
Not just because they dont believe in violence either. Its because, just like all criminal organisations, the IRA terrorised their own people more then the "enemy."
Many Irish catholics in the south were far more intimidated by the IRA then they ever were by the British government. Which considering Ireland has been a Republic since the 1920s, is hardly surprising.
The simple point I was making. Was that I think we have enough problems to worry about with our own democracy to care to much about a place thats quite capable of sorting out its own problems.
Leave Peter Hain alone he is Tony Benn`s vicar on earth.
...now thats a title crying out for an accurate cross bow
meanwhile back at the rugby :-)
Just as well Scotland will be independent soon. seems all a bit messy the Irish/Lodon carry on.
But nowadays the irish think you're great just like the Scots and everybody else does ... feel the love :-)
Peter Hain if he had any moral standing at all. Would do what his name sake Peter Tatchall is now doing.
Trying to make some amends for his illegal activities, that were very much responsible for the rise of a communist dictator, that is Mugabe.
A man now responsible for hundreds of thousands of Stalinist type murders of his own people.
Instead of featherbedding himself in the corrupt world of British socialist politics.
A good question is: Why is Peter Hain living in Britain at all apart from his MPs wages?
I know its because Mugabe would have him dead in his fridge by now.
The spineless egocentric coward.
Gary,
And on that point I agree with you 100%.
By the way did Hain try and grandstand or did he decide discretion was the better part of valour? I'd imagine he'd recieve a distinctly unpositive reaction from any rugby crowd had he tried to make some sort of political brownie points out of a rugby game, regardless of the historical issues.
To my eternal regret I missed the match and the Telegraph doesn't report. My only excuse is that I was watching a Super 14 match with a bunch of committed Blue Bulls fans who wouldn't let me change the channels
Well done the Irish crowd for showing that they have moved on from the potato-loving simpletons we thought they were. By respecting the British national anthem they gave two fingers to the politicians and media-pundits who 'wanted to make something of it'.
Crushed by Ingsoc said...
The shooting at Croke Park has to be the blackest day in the history of the British Empire since Cromwell.
Really? I thought the Amritsar massacre took that particular biscuit.
Hain should still fuck off.
@9.32pm Literati said...
newmania and garypowell, if you two had a reasonable grasp of spelling, grammar and punctuation then you might be able to make a case for yourselves, Still, your illiterate sputterings are quite amusing in themselves.
You might want to take a look at your own punctuation. Still shouldn't have a capital letter after the comma you pedantic cunt. (people in glass houses etc....)
Not accurate I'm afraid Guido.
"Soldiers are we whose lives are pledged to Ireland.
Some have come from a land beyond the waves"
Born to be free. No more our ancient sireland
Shelter the the despot or the slave"
It makes the point that the the Irish people also exist abroad and were coming back to fight for Ireland - not that everyone beyond the waves were tyrants.
A number of signatories to te Proclamation of Independence were indeed born in England of Irish or Anglo-Irish stock and did indeed return to fight and be executed. However when Peadar Kearney wrote the words in 1907 he would not be aware of that fact but was really refering to the Irish disapera which judging by the flights back to the UK on Sunday after the match still very much exists.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the general view that hte match at Croke park was a "good thing". There's nothing wrong with England losing -- all teams do it all the time. What sticks in my throat is the blatant surrounding of a sporting fixture with irrelevant history. Who knows what effect it had on the Enland team or their support? Who knows how much the Irish were driven on? Was the referee mindful of it? The answer to all is that it should not have been in the first place. The RFU should have told the Irish that they wouldn't play there at all; a suitable response to the 80-odd years of two-fingered salute that has been coming the other way. Are there no other pitches in the country?
Newmania: "How I love to here the Spuds crowing about the success of their low tax economy. Of course this could not have been achieved without suckling EU handouts like a greedy little pig . The single and only reason for their success . Right you are though ,more fool us for allowing ourselves to be conned year in year out ."
While I've no doubt that by the use of terms such as "Spuds" you're trolling, for the benefit of those who may give your silly comments more than a passing glance it should be noted that Ireland is a net contributor to the EU coffers.
Also, if EU largesse was the main driver of the Irish economy, then why are Spain, Portugal and Greece still doing so badly?
I was at the game myself, all the worrying about the game was a load of bollocks.
On the way in, along the tiny backstreets leading up to the stadium I only saw one silent protest.
two guys in irish colours, face painted with the flag, and a placard saying Rememeber (and the name of one of the dead), killed by the black and tans.
They didnt say or do anything, just stood there making their point.
In the stadium during the anthems there were a few dissenting voices, but they were drowned out by the away fans (and i suspect some of the home fans too). The Irish Anthem was ear splittingly loud, and even I was a little choked at the prospect.
I dont understand (or even care) about the politics, it was a good event, and well staged by the GAA.
Peter Hain was just politiking and quite frankly its pathetic.
Just recovering from the immense event...great win for us.
But c'mon no-one must have been naive enought to think that Nulab could pass up an opportunity to meddle IT'S WHAT THEY DO...
Also shows that they are well and truly 'in touch',
I'm Irish but I fucking HATE rugby. Too many breaks & far too much man hugging man. Play a real sport ya big fucking gaylords.
Guido, you disappoint. Less personal plastic-paddy politics, more gossip. There's a good pretend mick....
Never! Football is the game for gaylords. All that kissing!
And they are a bunch of spoilt, overrated prima donnas. I mean that handbag at dawns fight between Chelsea & Arsenal. Good Lord.
Thanks for the nice post!